In this episode the Shaman is joined by his grandfather to discuss the history of societal acceptance and obedience to some form of top-down form of religion. They dive into the understanding of separating the spirituality and the millennia old development of practice. Pitting neighbor against neighbor in a societal manipulation for control by the use of the aged-old use of shame/guilt as a vehicle into the collective emotional state of the followers. Mark discusses his own journey of destructing his belief in religion, as well as his arrival into the place of his spiritual enlightenment.